(Pether) Re: Fw: Fw: [top-politics] Re: [cicdd] Gale (1): Achieving True Democracy (parlement)

Dear Pether

Nice to hear from you ;-)

Original Message -—

From: “Pether Sorling” <pether_sorling@yahoo.co.uk> To: <top-politics@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: [top-politics] Re: [cicdd] Gale (1): Achieving True Democracy

Hello everyone,Been a few interesting messages the last few days but will try to limitmy replies to the ones where I have some feedback..Also wanted to welcome Emmanuel Charpentier to the list, always fun tosee other open source projects progressing.Agree in many ways with Markus,

;-)

for me the important thing is to create

a way for political organisations to be built bottom up. A SourceForgefor political organisations is a good description for a developer forwhat I also want to achive. But I want to limit to type of policialorganisations to political parties that has as of the main goals tostand in elections.

OK, that’s a good point. But, what is the main difference between parties and other political organizations? As I see it there is not much difference, because an organization is an organization no matter what it does. I also belive that parties are just on part of the story, because there have to be other organizations which would be something like a counterpart to parties, who could focus on specific fields of mankind. Other organizations play an important role in a political system, so I think that they should also be included in such a system.

For people that don’t have any experience with open source it isimportant to point out that the motivation to create an open sourceproject is very individual.

This is something we want to achieve with the TOP standard. Likwise as ISO9001 tries to change employees way of thinking about quality (not going into how successfull it is), we would like to change peoples way of thinking about politics in an OpenSource manner. Any suggestions?

For me learning is an very importantaspects of it, since playing with technologies helps me stay up to datein my field of work.

Yes learning and playing with technology is certainly a nice thing to do; but how to switch this into a political context?

Another important question for some people is when will it be finished? To be honest I don’t have an clue, it’s takes a long time to refineidea enough to be able to develop a solid application. Sharingknowledge isvery important for me, one of the reasons is that is helps me fill gapsin my knowledge and helps me look at a problem from differentperspectives. By sharing knowledge we also makes it easier for otherpeople to start new projects and for me it dosn’t really matters whatapplications are avaible as long as the stack of applications coveringthe political space increases.

I agree. This is one issue Gale tried to point out. He looks at our projects from an end-user perspective, so he does not see java, ruby, axis or maven; he only sees that there is no working system for now. Well this is something we should work on. Maybe join forces? ;-))

To create a snowball or an synergy effect by getting more people engagein politics online is more important for me than regulating powerstructures.

I fully agree! But, it’s a funny think that as more I am in this project, the more it seems to me that the snowball is allready in position and just waiting to be pushed down the hill. I see a lot of people around the world who came to similar or even same concepts of a system which might change the world… Aaaah, nice dream ;-)))

Liked the linkhttp://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue8_8/jordan/ , building anidentity online is important especially if one the goals is to createan community around an open source project or organisation..Back at paid work again, but will still be active on this list and onmy project, plan to do small improvements and release snapshots once ina while. Don’t mind to just chill for a while and let the open sourcetechnologies i depend on like maven,spring,hibernate and ejb3 specmature ;) Originally planned to have a finished alpa version ready tothe Swedish Election in September this year, but might be an releasedsnapshot of interest to some developers when Spring 2.0 and the EJB3spec has been released instead.

Well, have fun chilling ;-)

To use a political idea to demonstrate some technologies for developersinterested in open source & java server side development is a stepforward compared to no code at all :)

I’m not sure if I understand, could you explain this in more detail?

To measure progress is always hard, added below my project descriptionthat got my project approved at SourceForge 2004-07-21.—Description (at time of registration):Want to create an j2ee application where you can create politicalparties, where the views of the party is directly decided through it’smembers. Where the admin of the application can configure differentportals depending of the difference in political systems in differentcountries. So more of mapping of the different political systems indifferent countries. The basic idea is that it will take very long tochange a country to move to direct democracy but if you create anapplication that people can use to create/manage a political party youonly need enough votes to get above the minimum level of votes to getsome positions in the assembly. So by completing the registration theuser will actually become a real politician andhave exactly the sameinfluence over the views in the party as all the others members. Shouldbe open since are politicians are scum

;-)))))))

so nobody should be allowed to

hide how they have voted in different issues. Will use java,j2ee,hibernate,maven,ant,junit,cactus and struts.—Almost two years later I still enjoying to have delusions about how itcould be implemented ;) But compared to before I now have an website upand released some snapshots to the code if anybody finds it interestingto play with.

Well, this is not so good… Hopes things will get better!

When the traditional political parties start to be replaced by onlineparties then it might to be late but I can’t see that happen in thenear future.

That’s true, so we need to be faster. e-Europe, e-Croatia → all political nonsense which has nothing to do with greater democracy!

Hope this message isn’t to confusing and good luck with your projects.

It’s not confusing at all, it kind of resambles my feelings about the whole situation. I would like that I have more time in doing this, or even have some co-developers so things could go faster. But, I still belive that once we will create systems which will change the future of humanity ;-)

Best regards

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